Jag Duggal, Nubank’s CPO (Chief Product Officer), is a seasoned executive with stints at Facebook and Google. This month he talked with Harry Stebbings on the 20Product podcast about various Product-related topics. In this text, which is the second in a series of three articles, we’ll delve into the intricacies of hiring top talent and fostering a culture of trust, agility, and innovation in the rapidly evolving fintech landscape.

Read through Duggal’s invaluable insights on crafting a nuanced hiring process, drawing from his experiences at Facebook, Amazon, and Google. Discover how Nubank prioritizes drive, clarity, and team dynamics over traditional credentials, and learn the importance of keeping teams small, autonomous, and empowered to make swift decisions. Join us as we explore the art and science of building a world-class team at Nubank.

In the first article, Duggal shared his insights on product management, customer empathy, and the balance between art and science in product development. Now let’s talk about team building!

How does Jag approach the hiring process for all new product hires?

Jag emphasizes the importance of team size and autonomy. Nubank maintains a culture of keeping teams small and providing team members with the autonomy to make decisions about their product or business. This approach is inspired by Amazon’s “two-pizza box teams” concept, which suggests that teams should be small enough to be fed by two pizzas. By keeping teams small, Nubank ensures that they can be agile and maintain the ability to make quick decisions.

Another key aspect of Nubank’s culture is the practice of escalating issues when team members get stuck. Jag believes that a bad decision that can be iterated on is better than no decision at all, as it allows for learning from the market and customers. This mindset encourages team members to take action, knowing that very few decisions are one-way doors.

Jag also values drive and clarity in potential candidates. He wants to see if they can effectively communicate their ideas and demonstrate the determination to overcome challenges.

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What are the single biggest mistakes Jag has made when hiring for the product team?

Jag admits that over time, he has lost confidence in the hiring process. He has realized that credentials, such as the right school or company, do not guarantee a good fit for a particular team or problem. He has also learned that team dynamics play a crucial role in achieving success, and assembling a group of talented individuals doesn’t guarantee that the whole will be greater than the sum of its parts.

One example Jag mentioned was Google’s hiring process, which placed a heavy emphasis on credentials, such as SAT scores and college transcripts. While this approach attracted a high density of talent, it also led to blind spots and missed opportunities, like hiring product managers without computer science degrees who went on to found successful companies like Instagram.

What are the must-ask questions when hiring for product?

Jag suggests asking questions around two main themes: drive and clarity. Questions about drive can reveal a candidate’s determination to achieve greatness, willingness to take command of a situation, and ability to stomach their own incompetence. This last point, in particular, is essential for building something new and diving into unknown territory.

Questions about clarity can help assess a candidate’s ability to effectively communicate their ideas and explain their past work in a comprehensible manner. Clarity is vital because it ensures that team members can understand and align with each other’s work, leading to more cohesive and successful outcomes.

The importance of clarity

Jag learned the importance of clarity from Kevin Systrom, who once said, “We may not be right, but at least we are clear.” Jag applies this principle in the hiring process by looking for candidates who can clearly articulate their ideas, even if those ideas might not be perfect. This approach allows Jag to evaluate if the candidate can make their work understandable to others, a crucial skill in product development.

What did Jag believe about hiring that he now no longer believes?

Jag initially believed that the hiring process was a scientific endeavor, relying heavily on credentials and prior experiences as key indicators of success. However, he now views hiring as more of an art, with a greater emphasis on the candidate’s fit within a team and their ability to contribute to a specific problem or situation. This shift in perspective has led him to value drive, clarity, and team dynamics over traditional markers of success.

Trust and autonomy

Jag also shared his thoughts on trust within the organization. He tends to default to trusting people once they have been hired, believing that they have proven themselves to be Nubank quality. This trust translates into granting team members significant autonomy to make decisions and showcase their abilities. Jag believes that starting with trust and providing room to run is the right approach, correcting mistakes along the way as needed.

Escalation and decision-making

Nubank’s culture places a strong emphasis on escalation and decision-making. When team members get stuck, they are encouraged to escalate the issue and make a decision, even if it’s not perfect. This approach allows for continuous learning and iteration, as well as maintaining agility and speed within the organization.

Lessons from Facebook, Amazon, and Google

Jag shared valuable insights from his time at Facebook and his wife’s experience at Amazon. One key takeaway from Facebook was the importance of assuming good intent, which was built into the company’s cultural training. This principle fosters trust and collaboration within the team.

From Amazon, Jag learned about the concept of two-pizza box teams, which emphasizes keeping teams small and agile. This approach allows for more efficient decision-making and a greater sense of ownership among team members.

Google’s hiring process, while credential-driven, provided Jag with an understanding of the potential pitfalls of relying too heavily on traditional markers of success. It also highlighted the importance of considering a candidate’s fit within a team and their ability to contribute to a specific problem or situation.

Conclusion

Building a strong team at Nubank requires a nuanced approach to hiring that goes beyond credentials and focuses on drive, clarity, and team dynamics. By keeping teams small and emphasizing autonomy, escalation, and decision-making, Nubank fosters a culture of agility and innovation. Drawing on lessons from leading companies like Facebook, Amazon, and Google, Jag Duggal and Nubank continue to refine their hiring process, prioritizing trust and autonomy to build a team capable of tackling the challenges of the fintech industry.

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